Ground 24: Ochilview (Part 2)

Ochilview

Game: Stenhousemuir 0 v 0 Stranraer

Date: Saturday 12^th January

Competition: Scottish Football League Division 2

Attendance: 484

Admission: £13

Programme: £1.50

Two games into 2013 and I’ve still to see a goal. I hope that’s not an omen for the rest of the season. Although unlike the Edinburgh derby, there was a lot to admire at Ochilview.

This was my second visit to Ochilview having been here in November to watch Stenhousemuir’s tenants East Stirlingshire. This time I decided to travel by train to get here and an enjoyable 45 minute journey it was from Waverley before I got to Larbert.

It’s less than a mile from the station along the main road to Ochilview where I chose to sit at the back of the stand and have a read of the programme (I doubt I’ll be able to buy one for less than £1.50. Although the production values weren’t up to the standard of other clubs, it was clearly a labour of love for those involved).

What was clear from reading the programme and listening to the tannoy announcements was that Stenhousemuir is a club where a lot of activity is taking place. In 2009 Stenhousemuir registered to become a Community Interest Company and its clear that the community in where Stenhousemuir sees itself. The sooner other clubs realise this is the way forward and emulate Stenhousemuir the better. Football clubs have the potential to be great agents of change within their local communities and it’s disappointing how few are realising their potential.

The game itself wasn’t a bad one and I felt if there had been a goal, then the floodgates might have opened and we could have seen several. Sadly, that wasn’t the case and both sides were too ponderous in the midfield to get the ball forward quickly and cause panic within the defences. Therefore, there weren’t many scoring opportunities. It’s easy to see why both clubs find themselves in 7^th and 9^th in the league respectively.

Stenhousemuir controlled the bulk of the game, but as I mentioned were poor in the final third. They looked at their most threatening when their full-backs overlapped the midfield on the wings but frustratingly, the quality of crosses left a lot to be desired. Rarely did they go beyond the first defender and when they did Stranraer goalkeeper Mitchell was more than qualified to deal with them.

With not a great deal to get excited by on the pitch I was grateful to be surrounded by some characters in the stand, who were all knowledgeable and good humoured to boot. Unsurprisingly talk turned to the recently announced league reconstruction. There wasn’t a fan in my section that supported the 12-12-18 proposal and it could be summarised as “pish”.

Overall, it wasn’t a dreadful game, but was short on goals. This was my second visit to Ochilview and I’ve enjoyed both visits – any ground where the club shop is contained in a garden shed is always going to be a winner for me!

Ground 23: Tynecastle

Tynecastle under the lights is one of the best ways to watch a game in Scotland

Game: Heart of Midlothian 0 v 0 Hibernian

Date: Thursday 3^rd January 2013

Competition: Scottish Premier League

Attendance: 17,062

Admission: £30

Programme: n/a

In lieu of the Old Firm games, the Edinburgh derby is this season’s biggest game. Sadly, it was a spectacle that didn’t do this season’s entertaining SPL much justice.

I didn’t get a ticket to the match until just a few hours before kick-off. I’d been unsuccessful a few weeks before from the Hibs ticket office, but fortunately I was helped out by a friend Ian, who had a spare ticket for the Roseburn Stand. So I had a quick dash home from work to get changed and back on the bus towards the Gorgie area of Edinburgh where Heart of Midlothian call their home.

I got to Roseburn to meet the guys I was a little shocked. It was a strange mood in the air as there were a lot of people who had been drinking for hours. Truthfully, Roseburn looked a little like a war-zone. It certainly added to the atmosphere late on in the stadium but there was no doubt that it created a little edge in the air.

I’ve managed to pick up a programme at every ground so far but both clubs in Edinburgh have let me down! I’m sure there were programme sellers around but I didn’t see them.

We found our seats up the back end of the Roseburn Stand, but the only time they had people sitting on them was at half time, 3,000 odd Hibs fans stood and sang their lungs out for the whole game. The Hearts fans responded with good voice too. It was a shame that the next 90 minutes on the park was an utter disappointment. It says something when a penalty shoot-out between club legends at half time it probably the highlight of the match.

Both sides are capable on their day of playing attractive football, but both managers lined up their sides to play stuffy, agricultural football. The ball was hammered back and forth without any real cutting edge. Hearts substitute Jason Holt was the only player who looked like he had potential to change the game, but even that wasn’t enough.

Things could have been very different if Hearts had been given a penalty which they should have had in the first half, or if Ryan Stevenson had been sent off for his wild, reckless lunge on Hibs captain James McPake.

£30 will probably be the most I’ll pay for a game this season and without doubt it was the worst match I’ll see, however, the game had what has been missing from a lot of grounds this season: atmosphere. And this game had it in abundance.

Ground 22: Tannadice

Dundee United on the attack at Tannadice

Game: Dundee United 3 v 4 St. Mirren

Date: Sunday 30^th December

Competition: Scottish Premier League

Attendance: 6,386

Admission: £19

Programme: £3

I don’t think I’ll witness a more enthralling match all season – some great goals and some kamikaze defending all contributed to my favourite visit of the year so far.

Navigating Dundee can be quite difficult if you don’t know the city that well. I’m one of those people, so I was absolutely delighted to find a parking space on Dundonald Street, only a matter of minutes away from the ground. I seriously thought that I was going to miss kick-off, which would have been disappointing.

A quick walk around the stadium, I found myself at the turnstile for George Fox Stand and paid my £19 to get in. My first thoughts were that the ground wasn’t at all like I remembered. I’ve only been to Tannadice twice before, years ago, with both times being pre-season friendlies when we holidayed in St. Andrews. Both times we sat in The Shed end which in my mind made Tannadice seem like a much bigger stadium than it actually is. This time, in the lower tier of The George Fox Stand I found the ground to be much smaller than it appeared in my memory and on television. It means that the fans are very close to the action and the noise generated within the ground much louder. The fans around me were loud and passionate, if a little moany. They obviously have high expectations of their side. What was also great was the number of women and young children at the game (including the two old women behind me who made me laugh several times with their commendatory on the match and their withering assessment of the referee, “och, he must have got that whistle for Christmas”).

The trip to Tannadice was shaping up to be one of my favourite grounds, although the legroom left a lot to be desired – I’m grateful the seat to my left was vacant.

Dundee United started the game brightly, having lots of possession and looking the most likely to score – and any time Johnny Russell got on the ball he caused panic in the Saints defence. However, a slip from Barry Douglas allowed Gary Teale to drive the ball across the box and Paul Dummett was there to poke it home. The goal clearly knocked the stuffing out of United, who lost all composure for the next part of the game.

However, United got back into the game with a penalty. Jon Daly was brought down in the box when he leapt for a header. From the spot Daly sent the keeper the wrong way to equalise. United are very composed team on the ball, if sometimes unsure of how to play that ‘killer’ pass. This approach wasn’t being particularly welcome by the fans around me (“och no, we’re back to this tiki taka stuff”), which might explain why certain clubs don’t put an emphasis on passing football. But it was precisely the neat, patient interplay which resulted in United taking the lead when Stuart Armstrong quickly turned a Saints defender and rifled a low shot in from distance that found itself in the back of the net. It was a great strike, although Samson in the St. Mirren goal would probably feel he could have done better at keeping it out.

A 2-1 lead at half time gave the locals lots to be cheerful about at half time and it gave me the opportunity to sample a Dundee pie or ‘peh’ as the natives prefer to call them. And it wasn’t half bad either.

Some basic defending mistakes made it inevitable that we’d have goals in the second half and so it proved as we got four more. Five minutes into the second half, a terribly slack pass from Keith Watson allowed St. Mirren to take full advantage with Steven Thompson more than willing to put the ball in the back of the net. It was an entirely preventable goal but one which Dundee United have been guilty of several times this season. At 2-2, United continued to have the lion’s share of the possession but couldn’t find a way of making it count. The fans were getting on their back too, with the familiar refrain of “get it up the park” ringing around my section of the stand. I’m not convinced that would have helped United’s cause but football fans are rarely the most patient characters in the world.

United’s fans were further tested when St Mirren took the lead for the second time. Another Gary Teale cross (this time from a free kick) landed in the box and Mark McAusland was the quickest to pounce, lashing it high into the net from about six yards out.

The turning point of the game in my view came when Michael Gardyne managed to squander a perfect opportunity to get United back in the game with this effort. It was truly a horrendous miss and a further example of United not have a great deal of the luck on the day.

United were then reduced to 10 men when Brian McLean received his marching orders. He mis-controlled a simple ball and then recklessly lunged in to recover it. Initially, I felt it was a harsh decision but I can also see why the referee produced his red card. There was no malice, only clumsiness in the tackle, so perhaps a yellow would be fairer. You can judge for yourself in the highlights.

United’s afternoon got even worse when David Van Zanten put St. Mirren 4-2 with a cross-come-shot that the United defender Gavin Gunning hesitated over and it squirmed its way into the back of the net. Van Zanten has not yet reached double figures in goals in a 14 season career, so it would suggest that United were having a really bad day at the office. The fourth goal saw the start of a mass exodus from the ground.

Barry Douglas was able to grab the goal of the game with a spectacular free kick in injury time, but sadly it was too late for United to rally back and grab a point.

As I’ve mentioned, this was probably my favourite visit of the season so far. A great ground, firmly within the city (they’ve been playing football at Tannadice since the 1870s), a loud and passionate support and two teams competing and scoring plenty of goals. It’s these sort of games that are a credit to Scottish football and make me delighted I’ve undertaken my 42 Grounds adventure.

Ground 21: Stark's Park

Stark's Park Main Stand

Game: Raith Rovers 2 v 2 Cowdenbeath

Date: Saturday 29^th December

Competition: Scottish Football League Division 1

Attendance: 1,877

Admission: £17

Programme: £2

It wasn’t supposed to be Stark’s Park today. I was hoping to keep it (relatively) local by attending Livingston’s home fixture with Hamilton. The West Lothian club had reduced prices for this game to £5, which was an offer too good to resist. I picked up my friend Gordon, and we headed to pick up my Dad who was also going to attend the game with us. By the time we arrived at my family home we received bad news – the game was off.

A quick scan of the fixtures saw that the only game we could make from the west of Edinburgh at 2.10pm was the Fife derby between Raith Rovers and Cowdenbeath. So it was off we went!

We arrived in Kirkcaldy at around 2.45 and got parked in the very pleasant looking Beveridge Park. We then made our way southwards under the railway bridge down Pratt Street where we found Stark’s Park. It’s an unusual stadium, being squashed into a small area with two large single tiered stands behind each goal. There’s also a fantastic looking L-shaped main stand from the 1920s, which hosts the tunnel and dressing rooms. The stand stops midway up the pitch where there is unused terracing. The far side stand has been built but currently does not have any seats due to Raith’s financial difficulties and lack of need for the ground to be completed.

This was the second time this season I was taking in this fixture having watched the dramatic 4-4 effort at Central Park back in October. We took our seats high in the South Stand which offered a great view of the pitch as well as of the town of Kirkcaldy.

Great views over the Lang Toun

The most extraordinary scene of the first half was watching a Raith fan two rows in front return from the catering stand with a burger and a pie. Nothing unusual there, until he inserted the pie between the two buns alongside the burger. Unbelievable.

Cowdenbeath took an early lead when Lewis Milne curled a cutback past Ross Laidlaw, but much of the first half was a drab affair being played on a heavy pitch. There were occasional glimpses of quality but they were fleeting. The Blue Brazil extended their lead just before half-time with a penalty converted by James Stevenson who had clearly been fouled inside the box. It made the visitors sitting in the McDermid Stand (sponsored by Scottish crime writer, Val McDermid) happy, although I was disappointed by the numbers of travelling Blue Brazil fans. There was only a smattering of them that had made the 10 mile trip to Stark’s Park.

Rovers’ manager Grant Murray must have given his troops a relocking at half time as Raith returned in the second half rejuvenated. They pulled a goal back within five minutes of the second half with a Dougie Hill header. Three minutes later they got their equaliser when Brian Graham was slipped in to put the ball in the net.

The rest of the game was Raith dominated but they couldn’t find a breakthrough to take all three points.

Once again, another entertaining if sometimes dour encounter between two sides hampered by a heavy pitch. Raith will be disappointed not to take all three points whilst Cowdenbeath must be wondering how many times they have to lead in these matches before they can get a win?

Ground 20: East End Park

Great views at East End Park

Game: Dunfermline Athletic 0 v 1 Falkirk

Date: Wednesday 26^th December

Competition: Scottish Football League Division 1

Attendance: 5,746

Admission: £17

Programme: £3

Another trip to the Kingdom of Fife for a Boxing Day derby. Twenty miles and the Forth separate the two teams but I’m not quite sure why their duel is so intense. Seemingly it’s a rivalry that has nothing to do with football but instead as a result of a falling out at the Dunfermline ice rink in the early 70s between young lads from Dunfermline and Falkirk. It’s certainly an odd way for a footballing rivalry to start.

What is also clear is that Dunfermline Athletic are in a financial mess. They’ve not paid their players on time and had difficulties with the tax man. Part of the problem is due to the board’s own poor management. In their budget for this season they estimated an average crowd larger than two seasons previous where they won the First Division. For a recently relegated club, intent on slashing the size of its outgoings you have to question how the board felt they’d get those folk back through the door. Last season, the club whilst in the SPL took the decision to close the North Stand of the ground as a cost-cutting measure.

Perhaps part of the problem why so few people turn up to East End Park could be the prices they charge? My Dad and I balked at the £19 it would cost for us to sit in the Main Stand and so chose to sit in the west stand, named the Norrie McCathie stand. To get into the stand we first had to queue for ten minutes in the club shop to buy tickets to hand over at the turnstile. This is an unnecessary palaver, which is a hassle for fans. At a point where you are begging fans to come back to the ground and give you money, why make it more difficult for them to hand over their cash?

Safely inside the ground with good seats at the back of the McCathie Stand, I realised I’d forgotten my camera, so apologies for the pictures which were taken with my phone camera. The aforementioned North Stand was open for today’s derby and Falkirk had brought with them a sizeable away support. From our seats I didn’t have a clear vantage of the Main Stand, but the ground was over half full and this was Dunfermline’s best home crowd of the season.

The bumper crowd were treated to a good old fashioned derby match that could accurately be described as ‘lively’. We had two players sent off and Jim Jefferies, the Dunfermline manager was also sent to the stand for apparent ‘dissent.’ Jefferies never looks a happy guy at the best of times, but was livid at half time when he confronted referee Stephen Finnie as the officials came off the pitch.

There weren’t too many clear cut chances for both sides in this game with Falkirk dominated possession but rarely troubling Paul Gallacher in the Dunfermline goal. In fairness Falkirk were fielding a side with five players 18 or younger which is some achievement in a division where the pressure is on to achieve. Dunfermline had the better chances in the match and if it hadn’t been for Darren Dods marshalling the Bairns’ defence I think Dunfermline might have nicked it. However, Falkirk managed to steal the points on the cusp of full time with a well worked move (they had really struggled all game in getting their crosses beyond the first man). Blair Alston was on hand to slot the ball home from close range in front of the Falkirk fans to send them home happy. I’d question the stoppage time afforded by the referee but in a list of complaints that Dunfermline will have with Finnie’s performance, I’d imagine that timekeeping was far down the list.

Another absorbing if ‘towsie’ affair, once again reiterating my belief that Scottish football has a lot to offer in terms of entertainment. I’d love to know why Dunfermline fans aren’t turning up in significant numbers to see their side.

Ground 19: Bayview

Bayview

Game: East Fife 0 v 1 Stranraer

Date: Tuesday 18^th December 2012

Competition: Scottish Football League Division 2

Attendance: 441

Admission: £13

Programme: £2

Apologies for the short break I’ve taken in getting this ground posted. Excesses of the season and a busy schedule have meant delays. New Year’s Resolution for 2013 is getting these posts up sooner.

A Tuesday night and a visit to Methil, situated in the kingdom of Fife. East Fife to be more precise. It must be said that Methil is not the easiest place to get to, and Bayview is not the easiest stadium to find. It must be said that it was a blessing not to be heading along the M8 for once.

After only one wrong turn-off and a single check of Google Maps on the phone, I found myself parking the car on Ajax Way (how cool is that?) next to the ground. East Fife may not play like the Amsterdam greats but at least there’s an attempt to emulate the Dutch giants.

Bayview opened in 1998 under the name New Bayview and was previously overshadowed by Methil Power Station which has now been demolished. The new ground is made up of a single main stand which can hold 2,000 fans.

I had travelled to Methil straight from work so arrived with half an hour to spare. This gave me the opportunity to grab something to eat and drink (a substantial sausage roll and Ribena) and a read of the East Fife programme, The Bayview. The programme notes gave a frank and far from uplifting account of the club’s finances but also about future plans for the introduction of terracing to maximise income should the club find itself in the same league as Rangers next season.

This was my second time seeing both clubs this season and both had left me a little underwhelmed on their first performances. The teams ran out to Sam Sparro’s Black and Gold which for this night didn’t quite work as the Fifers were wearing their away strip! I had a seat in the front row which meant I was very close to the action – not quite Ochilview close, but good enough.

Coming into this game East Fife were on a three game winning streak after a boost in their fortunes since Billy Brown arrived as manager whilst Stranraer had lost six straight games away from home. Therefore it was quite a shock for Stranraer to leave Bayview with three points. Spearheading the Stranraer attack was Armand One, the Frenchman is in second spell at the Blues having played at five other SFL clubs. There is no polite way of putting this, but One does not have the physique that one would expect of a footballer – he carries a lot of lumber, which may be the reason why he was substituted after 60 minutes. His size might also explain why he wears the no.19 shirt as the usual shirts may have been a little tight on the striker’s body.

Stranraer scored the game’s only goal in the 34^th minute when East Fife failed to deal with a looping Robert Love ball allowing Craig Malcolm to delicately lob the ball into the net. One of those goals that appears to be happening in slow motion.

The second half belonged to East Fife who dominated proceedings without managing to find the back of the net. Stranraer’s back four held up well against the pressure and East Fife’s inability to get players on the overlap and pass crisply meant they finished the game empty handed.

Ground 18: Ibrox

Ibrox with the sun out shining brightly

Game: Rangers 3 v 0 Elgin City

Date: Sunday 2^nd December 2012

Competition: Scottish Cup 4^th Round

Attendance: 23, 195

Admission: £15

Programme: £3

Rangers Football Club. I know of no other club that divides football fans so much. They are Marmite. You either love or loathe them. There aren’t many shades of grey when it comes to the team from Govan.

When I first started watching football, Rangers were dominant. The absolute kings. Rulers of all they pervaded. Remember at this time, Celtic were hopeless and for seven of Rangers’ nine in a row triumphs finished outside the top two in the Premier Division. Rangers were an exciting team to watch – they’d always start the season badly and then steamroller every other club to a double or a treble. And twenty years ago they were playing in the fledging Champions League and I was finally allowed to stay up and watch games on TV. They defeated Lyngby from Denmark and then Leeds United in a ‘Battle of Britain’ that was to a 7 year old, really very exciting. They were drawn in a group against Club Brugges, CSKA Moscow and Marseilles and I remember watching every game. They were exciting games and that Rangers side contained players like Andy Goram, David Robertson, Ally McCoist, Alexei Mikhailichenko and Mark Hateley (although to be fair, I always disliked Hateley), all of whom were capable of wowing and winning games (hell, even Scott Nisbet got involved in the action, from 50 seconds on this video). Rangers narrowly lost out on progress to the final to Marseilles, who we later found to be cheating.

Cheating, breaking the rules, not playing to the spirit of the rules. Amazing how things can come full circle in 20 years? This is not a post about the rights or wrongs of what has happened at Ibrox, much better writers than I have covered what’s gone on in the past few years at Rangers. Me? I’m none the wiser as to whether Rangers broke the rules, but I certainly have reservations about rich institutions not paying tax. Legally, it may have been within the rules. Morally? Well, let’s just say I think if you’re earn a fortune then perhaps you should help those less fortunate than yourself and build a better society. Hospitals, schools and roads aren’t built by accident.

So we now find ourselves in a situation where Rangers Football Club have died, been resurrected and now find themselves playing football in the Scottish Football League Third Division. We now have a unique experience where the Third Division has two UEFA five star grounds and the SPL has none. But this is Scottish football and nothing is as it seems. Today’s Scottish Cup encounter between Rangers and Elgin was due to be the second clash in a week between the two sides but Elgin were forced to postpone the game following revelations that they had oversold tickets for the fixture due to be played at Boroughbriggs the week before. Like I said, Scottish football, where nothing is as it seems.

And so to Ibrox for a Scottish Cup 4^th Round match (at the start of December, madness), between the top clubs holding first and second place in the Third Division. Not exactly the usual encounter that finds its way onto Sky’s schedule, but this season is far from ordinary. I took my Dad along to the game as a thank you for taking me to Stirling-Elgin a few weeks before, and we found getting to the ground very simple – along the M8 (again) and got parked just off Helen Street. It was a bitterly cold day and I almost ended up on my backside several times as we walked for about ten minutes to find ourselves approaching the ground from the west.

I had only been to Ibrox once before, for a rearranged Scotland match when they played Bosnia Herzegovina, a match I remember for the Mexican wave which was infinitely more impressive than the game taking place on the park. The game took place in 1999 on an October night and I can’t say I have many memories of the game (evidenced by the fact that I had convinced myself it was a 0-0 draw when in fact Scotland won 1-0 with a John Collins penalty – clearly a classic match).

What’s clear is just how impressive Ibrox is. It is massive. Redeveloped during the 1980s, it bares all the hallmarks of a stadium of that era – that is, large, bricked and shall we say, built for comfort? The Broomloan Stand especially looks absolutely massive. We approached the ground seeing the famous gates (always used on news stories about the club) and I’ve always been in thrall to the brick and glass construction at either side of the Main Stand, although I was disappointed as a youngster to learn that all that was in there was an enclosed stairwell. Still impressive though. The main stand at Ibrox, now known as the Bill Sturth Main Stand sits on Edmiston Drive and is B listed building, designed by Archibald Leitch which was described by Leith’s biographer Simon Inglis as an “imposing red-brick facade, with its mock neo-classical arched, square and pedimented windows, exudes prestige and power”. It is really quite difficult to argue with that sentiment.

We arrived about 45 minutes before the game kicked off yet there were a lot of people milling around the ground, with the unofficial merchandise guys out in full force, you could even buy ‘Not Guilty’ scarves celebrating the outcome of the recent tax tribunal. We headed up to our turnstile and entered the home of Glasgow Rangers Football Club.

I found Ibrox a strange experience – especially as an away fan – deposited in a small corner in the north-west between the Broomloan and Govan stands. Admittedly, there weren’t a great number of travelling Elgin fans and the sheer scale of Ibrox means that from our corner it feels like a proper arena, and in certain moments feels like you’re actually indoors.

This season I found that sometimes the matchday programme offers an insight into the club you are about to watch, and certainly the Rangers’ programme gives an insight into the psyche of the club, with comments from writers inside talking about how “the world is watching at the way Rangers fans conduct themselves with great humanity” and how Rangers have been victimised and punished like no other club. It’s pure fantasy of course, but I now understand where certain Rangers’ fans get their sense of entitlement from.

What Rangers do well though, is a sense of theatre – they have a terrifically loud singing section in the bottom section of the Broomloan Stand, and they have flag-wearers that come out ten minutes before the start of the game to make kick-off seem like some sort of event. The music, however, is rotten. All tin whistles and horrendous throwback anthems. Never has one longed for the latest chart hits…

The game itself was actually a very good one – which Rangers won deservedly. Although, it wasn’t all one way traffic, but any side that has Lee McCulloch and Lee Wallace as a centre half pairing means they are always going to be difficult to break down. Add into that mix, Ian Black (who is still a nasty player at this level), McKay on the wing and two stars up front in Kevin Kyle and Dean Shiels. All these players would and should be playing at a much higher level. Kyle had the ball in the net within two minutes but it was wrongly ruled out for offside. It was fortunate for Elgin, and fortunate for the tie as it kept the game competitive. As thehighlights demonstrate, Rangers had plenty of chances, but were highly profligate in front of goal – it’s not so much a problem at Division 3 level, but when they face Dundee United in the next round of the cup they might be struggling.

Rangers made a break through just before half-time to stir the Gers support, who aside from the Broomloan section had been quiet throughout the game aside from a minute’s applause in the 2^nd minute for Sandy Jardine.

Elgin started the second half brightly and had three good chances to get back into the game. They didn’t take them which is costly when playing teams of the standard of Rangers and the blues responded by going 2-0 up from a whipped in corner. Kal Naismith put the game beyond doubt with his first touches after coming on as a substitute.

In reality, the gap in quality was just too much for Elgin, although they gave a good account of themselves. There’s no doubt in my mind that Rangers will walk the Third Division and will probably do the same in the Second, but they are not dominating games in the way one would expect.

All in all, an enjoyable day out at Ibrox. I’ve always fancied being there for an Old Firm game, but that may have to wait unless the two clubs draw each other in the cup in the next few seasons!